Exploring Entanglements: What Does it Mean to Be a Sexual Citizen?
This episode uses the book Sexual Citizens by Dr. Jennifer Hirsch and Dr. Shamus Khan to start a conversation about sex education and sexual violence prevention.
Transcript
Welcome to Exploring entanglements, a podcast brought to you by the Center for Women
& Gender equity at West Chester University. My name is Natalia. I'm a second year
double major in sociology in Spanish. And my pronouns are she her hers for background
complex regarding our conversation, I am bilingual, Puerto Rican, and cisgendered
woman. Hey everyone. I'm Dana. I'm a senior with a major in Psychology and a minor
in women's and gender studies. I use she or her pronouns. And just for a little context
about who I am and these conversations. I'm a bisexual, cis white woman. Hey everyone.
My name is Sasha Alvarado. I go by she her pronouns. I me third-year political science
major spanish minor And just for a little context about I'm bilingual strays from
Guatemala. We just wanted to give a quick trigger warning because in this podcast,
we will be talking about sexual violence and assault. We'll be analyzing and having
conversation around the book, Sexual citizens by Jennifer Hirsch and Shamus Khan.
This book offers a framework that conceptualizes the factors that enable sexual assault.
So we'd like the listeners to be aware that we'll be discussing potentially triggering
topics throughout the podcast. Before we get started, we would like to define some
terminology that we will be using frequently throughout exploring entanglements. The
first is sex. Sex is an umbrella term that encompasses a wide variety of sexual activities.
It's a fluid thing and it looks different for everyone. For the purposes of the podcast,
we will be defining sex, sexual activity between people where people's, This includes
intimate experiences between consenting parties that may build a connection. This
connection can be defined as intimacy. Our next term we will be using is sexual citizenship.
Sexual citizenship is it acknowledgement of one's own right to sexual self-determination
And importantly, it recognizes the equivalent right in others. So sexual citizenship
isn't something that you are granted when you're poor, but something that is fostered
and something that we as a society institutionally in culturally have support it.
So for example, some people don't feel entitled to their own bodies, and some people
feel entitled to other bodies. So how do we promote sexual citizenship? We do this
by creating conditions that allow people to be sexually self-determined. This means
making them feel secure, capable, and insisting that we all recognize each other's
rights. Another frequently used term that we'll be using throughout exploring entanglement
is sexual geographies. And this can be defined as places and spaces where people meet,
folks that they might be interested in romantically or sexually. Sexual geography
on campus could be a dorm room, class, or any other space where you can get to know
people or meet people. Sexual geography is also hold power in sexual situation. So
for example, in a dorm room, you can usually find a bad, an uncomfortable chair and
a desk. The presence of a bad space might suggest that sex is an option, giving a
sexual geography power in that particular situation. Another term is sexual projects,
and this involves the reasons why anyone might seek a particular sexual interaction
or experience. And a sexual projects can be considered a range of things like finding
or sexual identity you wanting to experience, unsure, interesting, gaining a specific
experience and even just trial and error, finding out what you like and don't like.
Another important term. Frequently using the term consent means the affirmative voluntary
agreement gave specific sexual activity during sexual encounter. Consent can be revoked
at any time. Another term that's frequently used with consent is coercion. Ultimately
consent as V1 A1 coercion is present. Coercion is unwanted sexual activity that happens
and you are pressured, tricked, force, and non-physical way. Coercion can make you
think you owe sexism and another frequently used term thought we'll be using throughout,
exploring entanglement is sexual geographies. And this can be defined as places and
spaces where people meet folks that they might be interested in romantically or sexually.
Sexual geography on campus. It could be a dorm room, class, or any other space where
you can get to know people or meet people. Sexual geography is also hold power in
a sexual situation. So for example, in a dorm room, you can usually find a bad, an
uncomfortable chair and a desk. The presence of a bad space might suggest that sex
is an option, giving a sexual geography power in that particular situation. Another
term is sexual projects, and this involves the reasons why anyone might seek a particular
sexual interaction or experience. And a sexual project can be considered a range of
things like finding your sexual identity, wanting to experience harsher, interesting,
gaining a specific experience and even just trial and error, finding out what you
like and don't like. The correlation between unisexual soul and communities of color
in college. Based off of what I've read from the sexual citizens text, is they mentioned
a story about a woman who went to a PIWI, who went to a predominantly white institution.
And there wasn't a safe place where there wasn't an environment where she felt comfortable
whenever she wants to parties, people always regulated her as hadn't drugs, as a black
woman who came to the party and, you know, basically who was a dealer, which, you
know, was not the case. And you would go to parties for the sake of meeting people,
meeting friends, having like growing to have a close friend group. And her experiences
every time are very difficult. And she found that the more she drank or more comfortable
she felt. And ultimately, this led to her one day falling unconscious and and her
unfortunately getting sexual sexually assaulted. And and there's a, there's a correlation
there between this because these are external pressures that that made her drink.
The reason why entrepreneurs drinking in the first place wasn't because she wanted
to drink alcohol or she had drank our Kwan the pastor had experience with alcohol
in the past. It was because she felt uncomfortable in the higher education system
that she was in. And this is explicitly written in the text as well. She felt uncomfortable
and the institution as she was in the PWM and found comfort in the alcohol and it
made her feel more welcome. And ultimately, you know, there's a correlation there
because of these external pressures, because it's not uncommon that people feel uncomfortable
or people of color feel excluded from different parties and different experiences
in college because of their identities, because of their race, their ethnicity, their
nationality, the languages that they speak, and they find comfort in in alcohol and
drugs. And although I personally, I'm not like a heavy drinker, I can definitely attest
to the the, the feeling of discomfort NLP Wi, and the feeling of not being accepted
and included. And some experiences because of my ethnicity and, and you know, my nationality
and the language that I speak so I can access that these pressures are real. Right?
There. There's another story here of I'm non-binary individual named Liu Bei and it's
very similar story where they attended a white institution, it says. And they felt
uncomfortable in this small community and the larger white community. It's solid wood.
They left campus to try and get away from the quote, ****** white music that was being
played at student events. So they left campus, try and find comfort in some sort of
outside environment. And they ended up at a bar where they were, they were alone there
and they we're offered a drink by someone and they refused. And then they're offered
again. So they took it because I guess it says up drinks in New Yorker, very pricey
and whatnot. So they just accepted the drain because I mean, who would enter. And
then it turns out that the drink was or that they had gotten drugs, that it was something
was put in the dream. And then again, ultimately it results in them being halted.
So I definitely think that there is a correlation between the individuals feeling
comfortable on their campus and feeling accepted and included on the campus environment.
Where one side. But yeah, like if an individual does not feel comfortable in a campus
environment, they might seek other environments that are off campus where things might
go awry. Unfortunately, it didn't happen like that. And lipase keys where the I guess
you it's heterosexual geography that they were in Watson and great for them in either
case, whether it was at the bar that they ended up, or whether they are on campus.
Just like I didn't have a place for them. So I think that having a safe space and
an inclusive space for people of color and other minorities is really important. But
I specifically relate to one of these stories because I used to go to university and
I ended up transferring my sophomore year to Westchester because of the lack of minority
students. Could champs can't miss. An ad, would often feel like when I would go out
to know these white parties, I felt like, well, I don't like this music. First of
all, I don't feel comfortable here. First of all, yeah, maybe I'm going to get a drink
to make me feel a little bit more loose and make myself feel like, okay, well, you
know, let me just try to have whatever and I, you know, and sometimes you feel that
alcohol can make you have fan or help you have fun. So I definitely agree that lay,
just be a part of a community of color, like a minority student at a predominantly
white institution, you can like, make you feel so uncomfortable and places where,
you know, where you're really supposed to have. And so like, I think it's important
to acknowledge that in a lot of universities, for example, Westchester university,
There are different spaces for different communities. Like for example, on West testers
Canvas, we have two different tail gaze. And to put it bluntly, one of them is for
the white students and the other till date is for the minority students. And so I
think it's really important to acknowledge that depending on what community you come
from, you're going to have different spaces for you to feel safe at. And sometimes
because of this, because of your multiple identities, you might feel like you have
to JSON to allow yourself to be comfortable and allow yourself to have fun. And it's
really unfortunate that because of our multiple identities and because we don't feel
comfortable and other species, sometimes it can result in unfortunately experiences.
But yes, asha, honestly, that reminds me of an experience I had as soon as I got into
high school. My mom, like Joe to into my head, like to never ever go to any like frat
parties because of of, you know, her background experience, knowing other women of
color who have gone to these, you know, whitespaces and and and have been sexually
assaulted. And she always drilled into my head like, never go to any fat parties,
don't drink any frat parties. I don't take a drink from anyone that you like, what
interests with your life. And, you know, like she ingrained into my head that I still
to this day like I've gone through a few frat parties. But like I haven't really like,
you know, had more than one drink that I brought, like myself over there. I've never
had to drink from from a frat party that like, you know, that was actually like providing
the liquor. So that just goes to show that like, you know, this type of a fear that
That some people of color and communities of color have when it comes to these whitespaces
and this mistrust this up. And that is extremely valid. And that's an experience that
I had growing up. My mom like really warned me about these about these spaces and
really ingrained into me and I and I listen to them Tuesday and I don't I don't drink
at frat parties at all. Yeah. And I would never consider a frat party to be a safe
space. And especially at Wash us or at least I know a lot of the mainstream France
are predominantly white. And that is never really a safe space or people of color.
And I think it's honestly so important to be like if you're gonna be drinking and
if you're going to be under the influence, it so important to be around people that
you feel comfortable with and people that share the same values as you like. If you
feel like you need to leave, they'll leave with you when you need and things like
that. And I feel like a majority of frat spaces and things like that and other like
predominately white spaces for people of color. It's just not ideal. Something really
important to think about because personally I have, you know, gotten to like a free
drink stay at parties. And I always knew that I had a group of friends with me than
either one might say, okay, well, like, you know, I'm going to make sure you're okay
or leaving this thing together. And I'm telling you right now, I don't want to leave
anybody else, but you. So I think it's really important that, you know, obviously
you are careful when you are going to be shrinking. But I also think it's important
to have like a person, like a designated person or a partner that you're going to
be like, Okay, we're leaving this thing to get there. Really we, it's safely and,
you know, we're just going to look out for each other. I'm going to be drinking. I
think number one, just for comfortability, it would be just much better for you and
you would probably have more fun if you drink with somebody or a group of people that
you feel safe with. And obviously if you're going into a place where you already don't
feel comfortable, you know, it's really important, especially in those spaces. People
that you know, are going to be there for you and aren't going to watch out for you.
And you'll just have each other's back. Because there's so many Unfortunately experiences
that so many people have had where they haven't been able to rely on somebody or a
group to really look out. And so I think it's really important that when we are drinking,
drinking species where we feel safe and comfortable. Yeah. And I feel like almost
like with we're talking about like having a group of people that we can trust and
that how like our best interests in mind, I think maybe like even setting boundaries
are expectations for the night before you go out, just like before anyone starts drinking
or anything, just be like, Hey guys, this is my intention for the NIH. I want to go
out, have fun and I leave with you guys like, I don't. I guess, setting boundaries
and expectations for how you want the night to go. So everybody's on the same page
and like if for whatever reason, like if you say like, I just want to come with you
guys, leave with you guys on. But then there's somebody who maybe that you meet when
you are out that is having a different idea about what the rest of the night might
look like if they might want to like, go home with you or something like that, your
friends will know that that was not something that you had intended to do so that
they can kind of stuff and you're like, hey, like checking your k with this. Like
how are you feeling about it type of thing. So that just take everyone's on the same
page and everyone kind of has the same idea of what's going to go on for the NIH?
Yeah. I honestly feel like that the a lot of of of questions regarding like consent
regarding, you know, how to drink. If you choose to drink, how to drink safely, you
know where the people that you can confide in, you know, what do you consider ofs
a splay, a safe space and you know, how do you go about like if you are drinking and
you have a friend who is drinking and your friend decides that she wants to go inside
of a room with with someone else, you know, or he, you know. How do you how do you
navigate, you know, telling your friends that you want to go and you're under the
influence, which means that you're not able to give consent. How do you go about like
telling your friend like, hey, you know, I know you want to go into this room with
this guy. And, you know, right now, you know, you may want to have sex with with him
or her. So how do you go about navigating that and telling them that, hey, you're
nine, the right mind space of, of, of having sex right now you're not in the right
mind space a good consent and you're not able to get consent. And if you know the
other person which you're engaging in sexual activity with, they're not in the right
mindset either to, to to give consent either. So how do you how would you go about
would you guys go about navigating a situation like that where you have to kind of
be the middleman and tell you personally, tell your friend no. I feel like almost
like what you said about like, hey, you're not I don't think you're in the right mind
space for this. I don't think maybe the other person is in the right headspace for
this, either maybe suggest staying, you get their Snapchat or you've got their phone
number or something and then you can kind of set something else up for another time
or like, I guess just being there for your friend and offering me the other options
could be helpful in that situation just to make sure that everything's all good, everything
is still safe and whatnot. But again, like giving them that option still and kind
of putting in their head like, oh, maybe this isn't the best choice. Like I know you
told me like, if you set the expectation, I want to come with you guys and then leave
with you guys. Like, kind of bring that back up and be like, okay, this is what you
told me earlier and this is a little different from what's going on right now. Like
maybe do you want to stick to that plan and then we can figure something else out
for an hour time for you guys or something like that. And I've been in situations
like that where, you know, we have been at a party. One of my friends have been I'm
about to head out with this guy and they're clearly drunk. So in that situation, what
I did was I went to him and I was like, yeah, she's drunk, she's not leading with
you at all. And that's it. And so I think that lake, you know, it also does depend
on the situation. Like, for example, like Dana said, you can always just be like,
shrunk. She's not leaving with you tonight, but you can hear her Snapchat. I'll give
you that much. And you can text her tomorrow. But, you know, I think it's more just
another person knows that there's a person that is looking out for that person, specifically
like in this situation, my friend. So he knows that I'm there with my friend and looking
out for her and say, yes, leave it with you. They're gonna be more alike. Are cool.
I was not that serious for me to leave with her anyways. So I feel like once they
see that there's somebody there with you, that's like, yeah, no, I'm not letting her
leave. Then, you know, then they're going to be less pushy and aggressive. Because
sometimes it does get to that point where you gotta be like, OK, wow, which I'm not
leaving my, You have to get away from us. And so I feel like the best thing that you
could do in those situations is just be honest. Like you just look at the other person
and say, they're drunk. They're not leaving with you and they're coming home when
me and so I think that just being blunt, Basically, it's just better for me. At least.
I think that's what gets people, what gets other people more. So like, okay, that's
cool. Rather than like all come on, come on. Like, you know, she's not that draw.
Like, you know, they always try to say something like that. So I think just the implant
will just erase all of that type of Smalltalk. And that's I think what I would do.
Yeah. Honestly, I would do the same thing. I will put my foot down and I would tell
them, you know, right now, she's not in the right mindset of, you know, of having
sex, of engaging in any type of sexual activity. And ultimately she's, you know, she's
under the influence so she can not give you consent. So anything that happens okay.
Will ultimately be your responsibility because you are the one trying to engage. You're
the one who is engaging in and trying to get her to go with you. And I I feel like
putting your foot down and showing like yo like you're about to take my friend, you
know, if this is somebody that you really want to have future relations with, then
you can talk to her when she's at an appropriate mindset where she is not under the
influence, where she can give her consent and she couldn't make a rational decision
about like whether or not she wants to engage in anything. You even if it's conversation
ultimately, you know, this reminds me of a ramp step up and how we had these community
guidelines to stick up for each other. And it goes beyond that because there's some
women who go to these parties alone, who get themselves into situations sometimes
are, are are in situations are put into situations sometimes where they have friends
who they don't know anyone to, to stick up for them in and say like, How No, there's
no way you're leaving with this individual. No. I was under the influence. There's
no way that, you know, I'm going to allow you to put them into this situation is predicament.
And ultimately ramps that both the program actually goes over the situation chips
and, and these community guidelines that wishes to university tries to stick by so
that we could prevent some of these, you know, sexual souls and these rapes that happen.
I definitely think like with what the RAM step up with the bystander intervention.
I think it's so important that everybody kind of takes, even if you're not in a group
of people like say you go out by yourself or loop-based story that we had mentioned
earlier where they had left campus on their own and they went out like, I feel like
everybody can share this responsibility of kind of keeping an eye on each other in
these situations where, you know, there's, there's drugs, there's substitutes, there's
alcohol, there's things like this. I feel like I feel Haig in loop-based story where
they left campus on their own and they went out to a bar. And they didn't really have
anyone with them to kind of step in or intervene. And that's where the whole idea
of bystander intervention with Rem step up comes in where everyone should kind of
accept this responsibility for the other people that are out. Where if you see something,
you should say something or if you see somebody that looks uncomfortable or is alone,
like, I know I would keep an eye on anyone if I see any of the Hang on. I'm always
just a little suspicious and always just want to know what's going on and make sure
everyone is safe and stuff. So I feel like with the community guidelines of RAM step
up, it's kind of we've made it into a shared responsibility for the safety of everyone
around. Like I feel, hey, we need to do our own heart and helping each other out and
really just preventing any experience sexual assault from happening. And so I just
wanted to end this with a reminder about some of the resources that we offer. Unless
justice campus, in case you know, anybody that has experienced harm or you yourself
have a serious harm. You are not along. You have support spaces here on campus. So
you can visit WC UPA.edu slash sexual misconduct. You can also visit counseling center
that is so open for students virtually. You can visit there, say, or call to setup
an appointment. And the Center for Women and Gender Equity does offer not confidential
survivor support. Our listening from another university or city. You can call the
national sexual assault hotline at 1806 5-6 for 673, and that is available 24 hours
a day. So please do not feel like you're alone in any of these situations. We are
always here to help as a center, as a friend. And we offer various we offer various
support spaces on campus. So just reach out and know that somebody will be there to
support you through this.